What Grade of Gas are you using?

[Boose]

If ethanol is so great for performance, why isn't the Mustang set up to use more than 10%? The GT is an ACTUAL performance engine/vehicle. The Expedition is not. It is designed to tow and haul people. Apples and Oranges. I don't any benefits running anything higher than 91, in an engine that is only 10.5-1 compression. Lower compression is better for towing.

Ethanol results in a net increased octane rating. However it's nasty stuff regarding the corrosive properties. 0% is the safe range that the plumbing and seals can take without compromise. Anything that runs a higher percentage of ethanol requires different o-rings, soft components, etc. As those concentrations of ethanol are not available everywhere, it's cheaper for Ford to produce one version that's good for all.

Not getting your lower compression is good for towing statement. It will burn cooler, yes but with less power all things being equal. Higher compression makes more power. If the octane rating is adequate, it won't detonate and ruin things...

 

[LokiWolf]

Ethanol results in a net increased octane rating. However it's nasty stuff regarding the corrosive properties. 0% is the safe range that the plumbing and seals can take without compromise. Anything that runs a higher percentage of ethanol requires different o-rings, soft components, etc. As those concentrations of ethanol are not available everywhere, it's cheaper for Ford to produce one version that's good for all.

ALL Modern fuel systems can handle Ethanol with no risk of failure. Issues with Ethanol damaging hoses and seals is a thing of the past. Your theory is actually why these Fords CAN run E85 with no hoses or seals having issues. Because of slightly different requirements for base fuel, ALL fuel systems are designed for Ethanol.

The reason for the low number, is the Fuel Pump, lack of sensor to determine E percentage(other manufacturers like BMW and GM have inline Sensors), and lack of standards between E85 and regular gas. There is no official E30 or E50 standard. Hence why those of us running mixes have to test fuel regularly. E85 is never 85% Ethanol, that is the max. I have seen it as high as 84, and my local pump is typically 81. I have read of others testing as low as 70 in Winter Months. Ford plays it safe and says 15%.


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[Boose]

ALL Modern fuel systems can handle Ethanol with no risk of failure. Issues with Ethanol damaging hoses and seals is a thing of the past. Your theory is actually why these Fords CAN run E85 with no hoses or seals having issues. Because of slightly different requirements for base fuel, ALL fuel systems are designed for Ethanol.

The reason for the low number, is the Fuel Pump, lack of sensor to determine E percentage(other manufacturers like BMW and GM have inline Sensors), and lack of standards between E85 and regular gas. There is no official E30 or E50 standard. Hence why those of us running mixes have to test fuel regularly. E85 is never 85% Ethanol, that is the max. I have seen it as high as 84, and my local pump is typically 81. I have read of others testing as low as 70 in Winter Months. Ford plays it safe and says 15%.


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Great information!

Here in NJ, we only see 10% max at the pumps... at least in my area. I ran into E85 on vacation in Iowa a few years ago, we used it as the car we rented was "E85" compatible. That and it was a lot cheaper then 87 octane.

 

[rjdelp7]

Where is that? If that pump had E85 it would be PERFECT! Mix my E85 and 100 to get to E70. I would be in Heaven!


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If ethanol is so great for performance, why isn't the Mustang set up to use more than 10%? The GT is an ACTUAL performance engine/vehicle. The Expedition is not. It is designed to tow and haul people. Apples and Oranges. I don't any benefits running anything higher than 91, in an engine that is only 10.5-1 compression. Lower compression is better for towing.

ALL Modern fuel systems can handle Ethanol with no risk of failure. Issues with Ethanol damaging hoses and seals is a thing of the past. Your theory is actually why these Fords CAN run E85 with no hoses or seals having issues. Because of slightly different requirements for base fuel, ALL fuel systems are designed for Ethanol.

The reason for the low number, is the Fuel Pump, lack of sensor to determine E percentage(other manufacturers like BMW and GM have inline Sensors), and lack of standards between E85 and regular gas. There is no official E30 or E50 standard. Hence why those of us running mixes have to test fuel regularly. E85 is never 85% Ethanol, that is the max. I have seen it as high as 84, and my local pump is typically 81. I have read of others testing as low as 70 in Winter Months. Ford plays it safe and says 15%.


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My Harley and Mustang both say 10% MAX. You must have a FLEX FUEL vehicle to run higher E%. They have stainless steel fuel lines and upgraded seals, bigger fuel injectors and high volume fuel pump. I am pretty sure the new model Expedition are not flex fuel. I am confused why Lokiwolf, thinks he has a high performance engine. Ford is working on a new 4.8l 420hp/420tq V8, for the trucks and Expedition. It supposedly gets better mileage than the 5.0 and EB. Put that in your pipe and smoke it...

 

[sjwhiteley]

Ethanol has a higher octane, but lower energy density (there's less energy per gallon than gasoline). The engine has to have the capability of adapting (or be tuned for) to that lower energy capacity. As LokiWolf says, modern engines have no problem with ethanol damage.

 

[LokiWolf]

If ethanol is so great for performance, why isn't the Mustang set up to use more than 10%? The GT is an ACTUAL performance engine/vehicle. The Expedition is not. It is designed to tow and haul people. Apples and Oranges. I don't any benefits running anything higher than 91, in an engine that is only 10.5-1 compression. Lower compression is better for towing.

My Harley and Mustang both say 10% MAX. You must have a FLEX FUEL vehicle to run higher E%. They have stainless steel fuel lines and upgraded seals, bigger fuel injectors and high volume fuel pump. I am pretty sure the new model Expedition are not flex fuel. I am confused why Lokiwolf, thinks he has a high performance engine. Ford is working on a new 4.8l 420hp/420tq V8, for the trucks and Expedition. It supposedly gets better mileage than the 5.0 and EB. Put that in your pipe and smoke it...

I don’t know about Harleys, not my area. Haven’t ridden a 2 wheel other than my Trek in 10+ years. Don’t know how their fuel systems are designed. I know Fords have been able to handle for many years. There is ZERO issue running higher concentrations of Ethanol in Modern Ford Motors as far as the Fuel Systems ability to chemically handle it. Would I run it in your Expedition, probably not.

ANY Motor can be a High Performance Engine, with adjustments. Who doesn’t want more power? I guess you.

No 4.8...Sorry https://www.google.com/amp/s/fordau...1-ford-f-150-will-not-get-4-8l-v8-engine/amp/

Maybe the Coyote at some point will make the jump for those of ya’ll that are stuck on having a V8.

Again, the certification of the EB motors for Flex Fuel has ZERO to do with whether the fuel system can chemically handle it. I explained that above.

You come on here having read all of your Internet forums and articles without ZERO real world experience. I don’t speak from just reading. I am doing. I have been Running E30 or above in my 16 Edge for a year, and have been running E70 for 4 months, with ZERO issues.

There are MANY 150’s(5.0, 3.5, and 2.7) and Mustangs(Both 2.3EB, and 5.0) that have been running full E85 for years with ZERO fuel system corrosion issues.




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[LokiWolf]

As LokiWolf says, modern engines have no problem with ethanol damage.

Pointless, This guy does not listen.


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[rjdelp7]

Pointless, This guy does not listen.


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The owners manual says don't use more than 10%. The engineers at Ford are wrong to? Not all 'Modern engines' can run more than 10%. Obama wanted to up the blend, to 15% and there was and still is opposition. Manufactures say 15% 'may' be OK. Running 50% or more, with no modifications is cuckoo, but good luck.

 

[LokiWolf]

The owners manual says don't use more than 10%. The engineers at Ford are wrong to? Not all 'Modern engines' can run more than 10%. Obama wanted to up the blend, to 15% and there was and still is opposition. Manufactures say 15% 'may' be OK. Running 50% or more, with no modifications is cuckoo, but good luck.

Nope, and wrong again. The 2019 Manual says, “Fuel Containing more than 15% Ethanol or E85 Fuel”. Not 10% as you keep saying. Please read below 1 more time.

The reason for the low number, is the Fuel Pump, lack of sensor to determine E percentage(other manufacturers like BMW and GM have inline Sensors), and lack of standards between E85 and regular gas. There is no official E30 or E50 standard. Hence why those of us running mixes have to test fuel regularly. E85 is never 85% Ethanol, that is the max. I have seen it as high as 84, and my local pump is typically 81. I have read of others testing as low as 70 in Winter Months. Ford plays it safe and says 15%.

Ford has FFV’s certified in almost every line up. None of the EB’s are, but many of the NA motors like the 3.5 are FFV certified. Which means they can run FULL E85 right off the lot. Their fuel tanks, fuel pumps, and lines in most cases are the EXACT same as in the same vehicle with the EB motors.

ALL current Ford fuel systems can handle E85 from a chemical/corrosion standpoint with out ANY modification.(I have a Chemistry Degree, and actually worked on Fuel based chemistry in College in the late 90’s)

I never said run E50 in a stock tuned vehicle. I said the theoretical limit for 18+ with a good tuner should be around 50% based on the motor and fuel pumps application in other Ford Platforms.

Running a few gallons of E85 mixed with a full tank of 93 has benefits you can feel. At least it does in my 2017, and the 18+ Motor is EVEN stronger being a Gen2 Motor and all. The percentage based on my math when I did it last time, I was probably around E20.

Welcome to modern technology, Turbo charging and the fun with Ethanol. Please take your 20 year old Truck back to your area...and stop spreading MIS information about things you don’t understand!


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[rjdelp7]

Nope, and wrong again. The 2019 Manual says, “Fuel Containing more than 15% Ethanol or E85 Fuel”. Not 10% as you keep saying. Please read below 1 more time.



Ford has FFV’s certified in almost every line up. None of the EB’s are, but many of the NA motors like the 3.5 are FFV certified. Which means they can run FULL E85 right off the lot. Their fuel tanks, fuel pumps, and lines in most cases are the EXACT same as in the same vehicle with the EB motors.

ALL current Ford fuel systems can handle E85 from a chemical/corrosion standpoint with out ANY modification.(I have a Chemistry Degree, and actually worked on Fuel based chemistry in College in the late 90’s)

I never said run E50 in a stock tuned vehicle. I said the theoretical limit for 18+ with a good tuner should be around 50% based on the motor and fuel pumps application in other Ford Platforms.

Running a few gallons of E85 mixed with a full tank of 93 has benefits you can feel. At least it does in my 2017, and the 18+ Motor is EVEN stronger being a Gen2 Motor and all. The percentage based on my math when I did it last time, I was probably around E20.

Welcome to modern technology, Turbo charging and the fun with Ethanol. Please take your 20 year old Truck back to your area...and stop spreading MIS information about things you don’t understand!


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Sir, you are the one making sketchy, ******* advise and claims. "Benefits you can feel", "motor is even stronger", "Modern technology?" "fun with Ethanol" come on man. Mixing fuel, will only lower your MPG. Ethanol absorbs moisture and deteriorates metals. It has 1/3 less energy content.

 

[Fozzy]

The secret to E30,50 85. Is the tuning.


https://5startuning.com/now-released-e30-e50-tunes-for-your-2017-2019-f150-3-5l-ecoboost/


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[LokiWolf]

The secret to E30,50 85. Is the tuning.


https://5startuning.com/now-released-e30-e50-tunes-for-your-2017-2019-f150-3-5l-ecoboost/


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Yep! And running an aftermarket Pump to do it safely over E50 on most EB’s.

MANY Tuners other than 5Star, but an excellent example.

But my point earlier, was even a Stock Motor can see an improvement with a little increase of Ethanol.

He keeps on insisting the fuel system can’t handle it from a chemical reactivity standpoint, and he is WRONG!


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[LokiWolf]

Sir, you are the one making sketchy, ******* advise and claims. "Benefits you can feel", "motor is even stronger", "Modern technology?" "fun with Ethanol" come on man. Mixing fuel, will only lower your MPG. Ethanol absorbs moisture and deteriorates metals. It has 1/3 less energy content.

Hahahahaha!

Just proves you don’t truly understand Ethanol. Less energy per volume, but also WAY less cost per volume. The cost per Mile is a wash.

The Octane, and evaporative cooling benefits FAR outweigh the less energy.

I have MPG numbers that show NO loss in MPG tank to tank in my Expedition running 93 Octane E10(Ethanol Content our local gas stays at +/- 1%) vs E20(Adding a couple gallons of E85). Logging you see less KR(Knock Retards). In addition, you can feel more power. Since I don’t have a Dyno at my house, no way to to quantify.

In my opinion it is FUN. Get more power without changing Turbo’s, or anything physically.

People are running Ethanol mixes in EB equipped Fords ALL over the place, far exceeding the limit of 15% in the manual. I even linked a video to a Mustang running on E85, that was basically stock, and running a tune. It saw a significant power gain!

Here is a video of an 18+ Expy on E50, no changes to the fuel system. It does have an intake, aftermarket intercooler and upgraded downpipe/cats.


Again, E50 with NO fuel system changes.

This is Modern technology, using tuning that is now commonly available especially via HP Tuner tuning options.

Nothing Sketchy! I am especially not being a *******. I have proven with science, videos, and personal experience that I am correct.

Other than statements that I have proven wrong at every step, what have you brought to the conversation?



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[Wangle]

Premium in general has no less Ethanol than 87. Trust me, I have tested A LOT of Pumps.

I look for the posting at the pump. At this particular “top-tier “major station that I use frequently, the premium is ethanol free. Add another discount station I use occasionally because it is top-tier, QT, the mid grade is posted as ethanol free. I watch this because I will NEVER put ethanol gas in my boat. So, great point Lokiwolf! Watch the pump labels, and hopefully we can trust those.

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[LokiWolf]

Yes the labeling is important.

Most states no longer allow Non-Ethanol, because of the whole MTBE ban.


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[Wangle]

Premium in general has no less Ethanol than 87. Trust me, I have tested A LOT of Pumps.


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Great point LockiWolf! I get fuel at two places, BP and QT, both designated top tier. BP premium at the stations I frequent are labeled at the pump that premium is ethanol free. At my QT stations the mid grade is ethanol free. I watch this, as I will NEVER put an ethanol blend in my boat. So pay attention to the labels on the pump. Hopefully we can trust those.

 

[rjdelp7]

Hahahahaha!

Just proves you don’t truly understand Ethanol. Less energy per volume, but also WAY less cost per volume. The cost per Mile is a wash.

The Octane, and evaporative cooling benefits FAR outweigh the less energy.

I have MPG numbers that show NO loss in MPG tank to tank in my Expedition running 93 Octane E10(Ethanol Content our local gas stays at +/- 1%) vs E20(Adding a couple gallons of E85). Logging you see less KR(Knock Retards). In addition, you can feel more power. Since I don’t have a Dyno at my house, no way to to quantify.

In my opinion it is FUN. Get more power without changing Turbo’s, or anything physically.

People are running Ethanol mixes in EB equipped Fords ALL over the place, far exceeding the limit of 15% in the manual. I even linked a video to a Mustang running on E85, that was basically stock, and running a tune. It saw a significant power gain!

Here is a video of an 18+ Expy on E50, no changes to the fuel system. It does have an intake, aftermarket intercooler and upgraded downpipe/cats.


Again, E50 with NO fuel system changes.

This is Modern technology, using tuning that is now commonly available especially via HP Tuner tuning options.

Nothing Sketchy! I am especially not being a *******. I have proven with science, videos, and personal experience that I am correct.

Other than statements that I have proven wrong at every step, what have you brought to the conversation?



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That youboob video is fake. It's been in the Expedition Forum before. $2500 in 'mods' and using E50. The guy even shows the capless fill that says E15.

 

[LokiWolf]

That youboob video is fake. It's been in the Expedition Forum before.

The video is not FAKE. Some of what they did like run against a stock Mustang, and over exaggerate the Crank Numbers is a little ridiculous, but the gains are still legit, and they were running off of E50.

Dude, you are dense!


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[rjdelp7]

The video is not FAKE. Some of what they did like run against a stock Mustang, and over exaggerate the Crank Numbers is a little ridiculous, but the gains are still legit, and they were running off of E50.

Dude, you are dense!


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They don't mention the 'mods' and fuel until near the end. They don't actually show the mods. They skip over that part...Your the fool to give these clowns $699(to tune), based on this video.

 

[LokiWolf]

They don't mention the 'mods' and fuel until near the end. They don't actually show the mods. They skip over that part...Your the fool to give these clowns $699(to tune), based on this video.

Dude. Seriously dense!

Andre mentions the Mods at 1:15 into the video! Listen to the words...I know it is hard.

The E50 is clearly shown notated on the Dyno chart every time they show it.

$699 includes the NGuage, which can be used with other Tuners and vehicles other than the Expy. It can be moved. That is a fair price including hardware. Name one mod on any NA Motor for less that gets you that much gain! Not to mention better shifting and throttle response. I’ll be waiting.

I don’t recommend 5Star in anyway, there are better out there. But that is a completely separate discussion.



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