FINALLY!!! K&N dyno sheet

[joethefordguy]

I have been asking this question literally since the dawn of time. Really. I was there at the big bang and the first thing that popped in my head was "Are CAI claims real, or ********?"

after all that time, K&N came across. http://kandn.com/dynocharts/57-2538_dyno.pdf

so the answer is yes, they work. and it doesn't matter. you can get close to 10 horsepower and 10 foot pounds as you get close to 4000 RPM. because I spend so much time at 4000 RPM, on and off road. at around 2000 RPM, not so much.

what a crock.

 

[Trainmaster]

Just as suspected, right?

 

[joethefordguy]

Just as suspected, right?

yes and no. I never actually suspected it, but I was growing increasingly doubtful because I could not get any actual numbers from anybody. I've seen several posts that were obvious wishful thinking at best and outright ******** at worst - "i got 20 horsepower and 3 more mpg with my CAI!" ....

i will say that, having seen the dyno results, now i think it should have been obvious that any actual improvement was not going to be at lower RPM.

 

[Thunderbirdsport]

Back in the Fox Mustang era, you could feel the difference from a stock airbox to a K&N/Flowmaster setup...

I put a K&N on my 06 Explorer a coupla years ago, made a bit of difference.

 

[GAINMOB]

same on my 04...increased mpg and throttle response...but i see they used a 4.6...i have 5.4...another difference factor

 

[Gary Waugh]

I hate to say it, but is anyone going to really notice an extra 10hp in a bus as heavy as the expedition? I keep hearing the filters don't filter as well as a stock air filter so more engine wear all for 10hp!! Seems like a waste of money to me..

 

[Trainmaster]

is anyone going to really notice an extra 10hp in a bus

No.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

I’ve heard the K&N self-adhesive sticker, if placed on the air box, will add an additional 5hp..............

 

[joethefordguy]

I’ve heard the K&N self-adhesive sticker, if placed on the air box, will add an additional 5hp..............

Sheeit, i got that much just putting it on my fender.

 

[joethefordguy]

Wel

I hate to say it, but is anyone going to really notice an extra 10hp in a bus as heavy as the expedition? I keep hearing the filters don't filter as well as a stock air filter so more engine wear all for 10hp!! Seems like a waste of money to me..

Well, yeah, that was kinda my point. I get that if power is the object, then every little bit can help, but really, I’m not drag racing this thing. It’s a DD that I want to be able to drive offroad as necessary. I’m not going to be spending a lot of time at 4000 rpm plus.
Now, if it was delivering that extra torque at 2500 rpm, that’d be useful.

as to the air filter, where did you hear that? I did a lot of research on this thing; everything I've read says the air filter works fine; much better than the OEM. There can be issues with the oiling, but I don't bother. It's not going to be worse than the OEM - from what I've read not only does it filter better, it is less restrictive. I'm not worried about increased engine wear.

 

[Thunderbirdsport]

It's less restrictive and less bends, plus a better than stock filter element. Why wouldn't it make a little more power?

Will that power be felt on the road, via the butt-o-meter?

Who knows. I can tell the difference on my K&N equipped V8 Explorer...mileage....pffft. It's a V8 SUV, IDGAF about mileage..

 

[joethefordguy]

just to clear things up - I never doubted that the theory of a CAI was correct. It made sense. Cooler, denser, air, should produce more power. But, I think everyone here understands there's a world of difference between what engineers in a lab on a dyno stand can do and what we will get on our car.

So I tried to learn more. I got seriously skeptical when no one could provide any hard numbers. I was looking for two things: real world results, dyno tested, on an actual truck, and, failing that, at least the actual reduction in air temperature - it's a "cold air" intake, so how cold does it get?.

Adding to my doubts was the many pictures of installed CAIs pulling hot air directly from the engine compartment. I don't think that's going to turn cold by magic.

I think these are fair questions to ask when somebody made the claims the CAI vendors were making. Just tell me: how much power, how much colder? Is that not fair to ask?

As I've said, i got no actual answers until last week. Anecdotes are great, but I wanted more. I could not get it. I began to suspect that it's not so easy to make the theory work in the real world, so nobody wanted to cough up answer.

Then, when i finally got an answer, last week, it turned out to be ********. I'm not interested in spending a few hundred dollars only to get ten foot pounds of torque I'll never see (at over 4,000 RPM), plus some goofy engine bling. if it only produced 10 foot pounds at over 4 grand, what will i get off idle, as a DD, in traffic, or offroad? I'm not drag racing my truck. If I can't get usable torque from off idle to around 3,000 RPM, it's not value for money, for me. If that's what others want to do, hey, it's your truck, and your money. knock yourself out. I'm not going to spend money I'll never get a return on. that's all I'm saying.

 

[Snidley53]

I bought a Spectre CAI for a Hemi powered Ram 1500 and never even got a hint of better torque, HP or gas mileage. When I got my Expy I sprung for the K&N replacement filter as I have used them before but will not spend close to 300.00 for the K&N CAI. I pull a travel trailer out west a couple of times a year but otherwise mine is just my daily driver. When I finally finish out the remaining warranty I may spring for a tuner but not before.

 

[TeeDub]

And ya gotta love how they cut the torque curve off at 70 instead of 0, which inflates the vertical scale and makes it seem like the improvement is greater than it is. I see this a LOT in published graphs.

 

[1oldtimer]

I use either the oem Motorcraft Filter or Wix Filters....Only.
K&N does NOT filter as good as either of them. That is my primary concern. And no way I could ever be convinced that a CAI is better than Fords OEM intake system. It is already design for best possible airflow. At least to my understanding of the OEM system

 

[joethefordguy]

I use either the oem Motorcraft Filter or Wix Filters....Only.
K&N does NOT filter as good as either of them. That is my primary concern. And no way I could ever be convinced that a CAI is better than Fords OEM intake system. It is already design for best possible airflow. At least to my understanding of the OEM system

wrong.

 

[Zach Dean]

just to clear things up - I never doubted that the theory of a CAI was correct. It made sense. Cooler, denser, air, should produce more power. But, I think everyone here understands there's a world of difference between what engineers in a lab on a dyno stand can do and what we will get on our car.

So I tried to learn more. I got seriously skeptical when no one could provide any hard numbers. I was looking for two things: real world results, dyno tested, on an actual truck, and, failing that, at least the actual reduction in air temperature - it's a "cold air" intake, so how cold does it get?.

Adding to my doubts was the many pictures of installed CAIs pulling hot air directly from the engine compartment. I don't think that's going to turn cold by magic.

I think these are fair questions to ask when somebody made the claims the CAI vendors were making. Just tell me: how much power, how much colder? Is that not fair to ask?

As I've said, i got no actual answers until last week. Anecdotes are great, but I wanted more. I could not get it. I began to suspect that it's not so easy to make the theory work in the real world, so nobody wanted to cough up answer.

Then, when i finally got an answer, last week, it turned out to be ********. I'm not interested in spending a few hundred dollars only to get ten foot pounds of torque I'll never see (at over 4,000 RPM), plus some goofy engine bling. if it only produced 10 foot pounds at over 4 grand, what will i get off idle, as a DD, in traffic, or offroad? I'm not drag racing my truck. If I can't get usable torque from off idle to around 3,000 RPM, it's not value for money, for me. If that's what others want to do, hey, it's your truck, and your money. knock yourself out. I'm not going to spend money I'll never get a return on. that's all I'm saying.

I rev mine out to 4K at least a couple times a day just to do it and I recently got that Flowmaster 40 series and love what this beast sounds like but yeah I guess for that little on a daily driver I wouldn't do that either

 

[Expedition2017]

If you couple the K&N "cold air" intake with a turbo back exhaust system (not just cat back) it does help. I did it on my 2017 and it was a noticeable difference.

Starting from the same point on the same road I saw a gain in mph. Simply put it does very little by itself.

 

[ExplorerTom]

wrong.

Great response. Filled with so many facts. It’s going to take awhile to unpack everything you’ve laid out before us.

 

[joethefordguy]

deleted.