Towing Advice Please - Considering Aftermarket Modifications

[joethefordguy]

I'd just like to point out that the man making this statement is currently driving a 16 year old 5.4L. I'm inclined to think he knows of what he speaks...

thanks, but this one I cannot take credit for. I bought it at 96k 14 months ago. on the other hand, I did a couple of years of research before I found one equipped like I wanted, and in the condition I wanted. so there's that.

as to whether I know of what I speak or not, here's some credentials: DoD training as a heavy fleet maintenance manager, then 44 months operating and maintaining a heavy fleet of 50+ 4x4, 6x6 and tracked vehicles, with trailers, almost exclusively offroad, here and in Europe. (one muddy hillside in Germany will live in my nightmares until the day I die).
I worked my way through college as a parts changer in a garage (not a mechanic). I did learn enough to successfully swap engines in a 6 cylinder chevy PU.
finally, with one exception, every vehicle I've owned since sometime in the '80's has lasted well over ten years. the exception was a Buick insurance replacement for the wife that ate it's oil pump about 3 years in.

besides the muddy hillside in Germany, I've (personally) recovered a 6x6 using a chevy 4x4, recovered two M1's which had both thrown their tracks, out of the world's biggest antlion sand pit, recovered a 4x4 that had fallen upside down completely into a shell crater, two M1 chassis bridges that had fallen off the highway and into a baron's front yard, and recovered a light recovery vehicle (a tracked cannon chassis with a boom and winch) out of a mud puddle up to the turret. etc., here, Europe, and Southwest Asia. I didn't do this, but we were shown how to recover a tank laying on it's side with a rope and a tree. who knew? those guys are geniuses.

i do have some confidence when i post, but if the above taught me anything, it is that I do not know everything. one thing all of the above have in common is that my first impression seemed always to be "well, this is new. now what?" much of my knowledge comes from one of the most proficient Army Maintenance Sergeants that ever worked in the business, an E7 who was a genius of infinite patience. and my father, also an Army Maintenance Sergeant, though of somewhat lesser patience (most memorable Dad quote: "boy, you could screw up a wet dream").

 

[joethefordguy]

I suggest being proactive with the cooling upgrades as well. A lot of the load towing a travel trailer comes from the aerodynamic profile. Whether the trailer is 20 ft or 30 ft, you still have that large frontal area being pulled through the wind. Add to that the fact that you could be towing into a headwind and it's a lot of work for the powertrain. It's worth the upgrade expense to avoid any potential source of breakdown while towing.

i completely agree. I had overlooked that entirely; it is a complicating factor in planning the tow setup.

 

[duneslider]

since I don't have one of the newer ones, I am (obviously I thought) either talking about my 2nd Generation or just generally. Why would I be talking about a new truck? I get the OP has one, which I was why I tried to be general in my recommendations. I have no clue, because I have done no research, on how to increase cooling effectiveness for a ten speed transmission, other than the obvious -which we have all referenced - improved radiators and coolers, etc.
I tried to make it clear that I disagreed with the notion of ignoring the radiator as an improvement: "Skip on the diff and radiator." did I misunderstand?

What about the oil cooler? is an oil cooler difficult to buy or add? what am I missing here?
one of my assumptions was that any radiator upgrade meant for a specific vehicle includes the integrated trans cooler. For that matter, why wouldn't any fluid to air cooler, such as an oil cooler, work for as an added external trans cooler simply by plumbing it into the line from the trans to the [whichever] radiator. if no such line exists, then that is a challenge. All I can think of in that case is a radiating fin trans pan, if one exists for whatever model anyone is looking at. I know I've seen such for differential covers. not much, but better than nothing, I would think.

Since this is the 4th gen 2018-present forum I thought maybe you had some specific ideas about the 2018+ models. They are more challenging to find ways to increase cooling capacity due to the design of the 10 speed. No transmission fluid leaves the transmission, so no ports to offer a way to cool the fluid. It is cooled by piping engine coolant to a heat exchanger on the transmission. The radiator cools the coolant but the computer controls the coolant temp/flow. A higher capacity radiator could help a little but the coolant temp is still pretty hot in my opinion for cooling a transmission. There might be fined pans for the trans, or higher capacity pans but I haven't seen them. It may just be a little early with this new transmission to have a lot of options available for it.

I haven't ever done an engine oil cooler, not sure how/where you tie one of those in?

Some have said that increasing the intercooler size helps the engine run cooler. Only seen one person do that on the expedition but haven't heard results with towing.

 

[LovinPSDs]

Really solid thread on the F150 forums about overheating EB motors (link at the bottom). Seems the F150 guys, who admittedly usually tow a bit more than the Expedition guys, have some overheating issues. These mostly appear in heat soak situations (LONG uphill grades) with very high ambient temps (90+ Degrees). Lots of interesting information about the thermostat, housing, coolant paths, etc etc. So far there are a handful who have done quite a few upgrades while still having OH issues.

Also, my comment in the radiator.. Of course an all aluminum mishimoto is an awesome preventative upgrade to have. I was simply stating if it was me, I'd start simple and monitor accordingly. So far, I've not seen anyone put a tape measure on the HD vs Non-HD rad so we really don't know the difference. Additionally OP hasn't even bought a trailer. It is very possible he could NEVER have an issue with the factory radiator, and I don't believe it's wrong to not buy one right out of the gate.

NOW, that being said... If we're spending other peoples money.... I'd do the following: HD Springs + Bilsteins, LT tires on the Expedition, Brake Controller, Mishi aluminum rad + 180*F T-stat, CAC (pick a brand), Downpipes, 5 Star tunes (mention 180 Stat when buying), Intercooler piping, catch can, maybe an intake because I like the turbo talk...

That Sum'***** would be a monster in all categories...


https://www.f150ecoboost.net/thread...controversial-idea.74204/page-37#post-1300001

 

[joethefordguy]

"...No transmission fluid leaves the transmission, so no ports to offer a way to cool the fluid. It is cooled by piping engine coolant to a heat exchanger on the transmission. The radiator cools the coolant but the computer controls the coolant temp/flow..." wow! I'm learning something new every day!
just speculating here, but if I was trying to cool that sucker, I'd install a cooler in the coolant line from the radiator to the trans heat exchanger. HOWEVER - and this is a big "however" - if the computer is ultimately controlling how much coolant gets to the heat exchanger, then anything we do might be a waste of time. see below.

the external engine oil coolers I've seen were on the Jeep 4.2, and a chevy pre-LS small block. it used a filter adapter that fit between the oil filter and the block, diverting fluid to the cooler then letting it go into the filter.... or perhaps it diverted from the filter to the cooler, then into the block. I can't remember, but i do remember a discussion somewhere about whether hot oil would filter better than cool oil, I just can't remember the result of that discussion. anyway we were building a mud runner, so high RPM runs were the issue, obviously generating a ton of heat. come to think of it, i guess most of our cooling came from muddy water splashed on the block...
FWIW, we totally F'ed up the build. we could barely get out of our own way. OTOH, we finished every run, which was more than some of our competition managed.

I once saw an advert for an oil cooler that somehow used the tube for the oil level dipstick, but that seemed super-flaky to me.

for towing purposes, the point of all this is not reduced operating temperatures over 'as-built', but to offset the temperature increase resulting from towing.
I would believe that, generally, increasing intercooler size would help the engine... but....
in any new vehicle, the kicker is the computer. if the computer is offsetting what you are doing, then it's all a waste of time. Except I would say that if the computer is also trying (as it should) to manage the heat increase from towing, then all these mods we have discussed should help the computer to do that.

sorry for the all the "if" and "should"... trying to cover the bases and not mislead.

 

[LovinPSDs]

So far the absolute best heat management from the F150 guys is downshift (increase coolant flow AND decrease boost) while watching the pedal... These torque monster motors like to lug creating high boost (lots of BTUs from the turbo into the cooling system) so if you can drive the boost down and bring motor speed up they seem to respond.

I do suggest reading that thread I put up above if you have time, good info in there.

 

[Fozzy]

Over the holiday I monitored my Trans and engine temp to the lake. There is a climb just outside Mesquite NV and it was 116* I am just under 13K GVCW with the boat and loaded Expy. Doing 75 MPH with the AC on rolling 35’s with HD tow. Highest the engine temp was 221* and transmission temp high was 226*. When hot they stay pretty close to the same temps. The EcoBoost defuels at 250*. So you would be shut down way before you hit the flash point of the transmission oil. If you where pulling max weight I can see it get overheated, especially if you don’t drive smart. But I know many F-150 owners overheating with a lot less load and air temps.


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[duneslider]

Over the holiday I monitored my Trans and engine temp to the lake. There is a climb just outside Mesquite NV and it was 116* I am just under 13K GVCW with the boat and loaded Expy. Doing 75 MPH with the AC on rolling 35’s with HD tow. Highest the engine temp was 221* and transmission temp high was 226*. When hot they stay pretty close to the same temps. The EcoBoost defuels at 250*. So you would be shut down way before you hit the flash point of the transmission oil. If you where pulling max weight I can see it get overheated, especially if you don’t drive smart. But I know many F-150 owners overheating with a lot less load and air temps.


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I have only seen temps go up when the air flow is low (moving slow up steeps, in high heat, heavy load). Once air flow increases temps go down. In my usage I have not seen anything concerning at higher speeds.

 

[Fozzy]

I have only seen temps go up when the air flow is low (moving slow up steeps, in high heat, heavy load). Once air flow increases temps go down. In my usage I have not seen anything concerning at higher speeds.

Why would you be going slow. We have the EcoBoost. [emoji41]


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[JasonH]

So far the absolute best heat management from the F150 guys is downshift (increase coolant flow AND decrease boost) while watching the pedal... These torque monster motors like to lug creating high boost (lots of BTUs from the turbo into the cooling system) so if you can drive the boost down and bring motor speed up they seem to respond.

I do suggest reading that thread I put up above if you have time, good info in there.

I agree. I haven't seen anyone complain of overheating while towing in a lower gear. The engine will definitely lug and increase boost if you let it. On my 2017, I've seen it stay in 4th and 5th going up grades. I think combining a lower gear and reduced speed will reduce the risk of overheating.