How can they tell it came from the factory like that instead of sealant plugging a passage from one of the 5 times they went in to replace the phasers? I’d be shocked if a factory fresh cam had scouring and made it into an engine for assembly, that would require a QC failure of near unimaginable proportions.
2018 Navigator getting 6th set of Cam Phasers.
- Thread starter Deadman
- Start date
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99WhiteC5Coupe
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I’d bet he meant that the cam was damaged due to the lack of oil flow at times, caused by sealant in an oil passage?
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking as well but from one of the repairs. It’s been taken apart so many times I’d be shocked if there wasn’t some issues from that. The cam phaser issue is so common it’s too crazy to think it would all come from sealant from the factory, if that was the case it would result in a recall or class action lawsuit by now. I think it’s poor cam phaser design and then subsequent issues from the multiple repairs.
i think thats giving too much credit to ford here -
i can’t say whether the phaser repair even uses the sealant in question, or if it’s only the factory build - im sure someone else more informed may know the answer to this...
& i would imagine that the phaser quality / design is an issue here -
however i also wouldn’t be surprised if a portion /series of these engines had legit quality control issues during a certain build period where “factory sealant” excess would unintentionally block a poorly designed flow portal leading to repeating the same repairs without fixing the root problem. i mean, let’s be honest, they can’t even line up the doors & trim on a good percentage of these - what does that say about precision internals? doesn’t make me feel very confident. i know so many people that dumped their various 3.5 EB vehicles due to recurring phaser issues. combine that with a lesser quality phaser design & there’s your group of customers with serious beef.
it also may not be a class action YET because of Ford evading the actual underlying flow design issue / that seems to be more prevalent for a certain percentage of engines before QC caught on to the real problem which IMO is why some vehicles don’t follow the “official”bad parts build timeline ford offers us.
honestly we as customers are pretty much in the dark on the real main cause for this, which Ford no doubt keeps intentionally fuzzy
/ blames on parts, to help avoid any such class action or mass owner lawsuits. if i were them i would avoid at all costs any true pinpointing of the root problem is as to avoid such a situation - hence the constant deluge of “sure we can fix it, new parts design” warranty repairs in the millions, likely much cheaper than potential buybacks or reparations VW style.
i think for some of us it’s a perfect storm, & deadman leads the pack.
i can’t say whether the phaser repair even uses the sealant in question, or if it’s only the factory build - im sure someone else more informed may know the answer to this...
& i would imagine that the phaser quality / design is an issue here -
however i also wouldn’t be surprised if a portion /series of these engines had legit quality control issues during a certain build period where “factory sealant” excess would unintentionally block a poorly designed flow portal leading to repeating the same repairs without fixing the root problem. i mean, let’s be honest, they can’t even line up the doors & trim on a good percentage of these - what does that say about precision internals? doesn’t make me feel very confident. i know so many people that dumped their various 3.5 EB vehicles due to recurring phaser issues. combine that with a lesser quality phaser design & there’s your group of customers with serious beef.
it also may not be a class action YET because of Ford evading the actual underlying flow design issue / that seems to be more prevalent for a certain percentage of engines before QC caught on to the real problem which IMO is why some vehicles don’t follow the “official”bad parts build timeline ford offers us.
honestly we as customers are pretty much in the dark on the real main cause for this, which Ford no doubt keeps intentionally fuzzy
/ blames on parts, to help avoid any such class action or mass owner lawsuits. if i were them i would avoid at all costs any true pinpointing of the root problem is as to avoid such a situation - hence the constant deluge of “sure we can fix it, new parts design” warranty repairs in the millions, likely much cheaper than potential buybacks or reparations VW style.
i think for some of us it’s a perfect storm, & deadman leads the pack.
Up until now my Navigator has been great, I believe the Lincoln’s get a little more attention in the fit and finish arena and the service from the dealer is killer. If not for those two items, the fact that it’s been paid off for a while now, and the extended warranty and maintenance plan we have it’s likely I’d fix the phasers and dump it. I have a Land Cruiser inbound now so I’m curious to see what real build quality and reliability look like.
Deadman
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EXACTLY.
Deadman
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Th factory engine build had the sealant in it and that plugged an oil passage early in its life. Thats why it scored the camshaft..... Dealer says so because it was never taken this far down before and somehow this was from new according to the disassembly procedures etc...
Wow, I’m kinda shocked they admitted to that. I would imagine Ford corporate would want to have that engine torn down and keep hush hush about the findings.
Deadman
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I refuse to dump this thing, I'm going to see too it that Ford gets it RIGHT! lol. They provided the warranty, so they can pony up until they get it fixed. I don't need it, I have other vehicles, but its getting annoying. I wrote them a check for it when I bought it, so I'm not paying any interest on it, but its been a long time in the shop!
Its got a 8 year 125K warranty on it, so Ford's got a lot of years to keep on this one! lol.
Its got a 8 year 125K warranty on it, so Ford's got a lot of years to keep on this one! lol.
We’re in the same boat as far as ownership outlook lol I’ll be getting out if mine when that extended warranty is close to over.
I’m in a similar position myself.
My 2019 has 22K on it and rattles like crazy on startup and got a ‘Powertrain Malfunction/ Reduced Power’ error this morning. (2nd time I got the error recently) No boost at all and felt like it was in limp mode, w/ very little power.
Pulled off the interstate and turned it off for a few mins and the code cleared itself (still shows on the app fortunately). With a 1,500 mile road trip planned next month, it doesn’t exactly inspire confidence even with a 7 yr/125K ext warranty.
It’s a challenging position to be in after owning many Toyota SUVs with zero issues at all; most of which were driven to 90K+ miles.
My 2019 has 22K on it and rattles like crazy on startup and got a ‘Powertrain Malfunction/ Reduced Power’ error this morning. (2nd time I got the error recently) No boost at all and felt like it was in limp mode, w/ very little power.
Pulled off the interstate and turned it off for a few mins and the code cleared itself (still shows on the app fortunately). With a 1,500 mile road trip planned next month, it doesn’t exactly inspire confidence even with a 7 yr/125K ext warranty.
It’s a challenging position to be in after owning many Toyota SUVs with zero issues at all; most of which were driven to 90K+ miles.
Deadman
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My Navigator can't get thru a tank of gas between shop visits. Its never traveled more than 40 miles from home, because we don't trust it would make it.
5280tunage
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That's inanely sad @Deadman ... Feel for you.
JamaicaJoe
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@Deadman help a brother out...
is there any chance you can find out what specific area or port of the engine that was plugged up with sealant? like a name or description or or even an image to reference??-
a month after surgery mine is making noises again, that are not just at startup but absolutely sound timing related - & i am pretty sure it’s gonna get cracked open again & i don’t wanna rinse repeat.... especially not 5 more times before they actually get to the root.
just like you, i’m digging my heels in. I am not gonna dump this thing as i’ve got a 10yr/150k extended. I am also gonna make Ford see this through, if not for me, for the others here, so it may perhaps help some poor owner to avoid the rabbit hole of endless phaser surgeries & endless hours of crappy tiny loaner vehicles & wasted time & energy etc etc. i’ve got other vehicles to drive so it’s a matter of principal at this point TBH.
there is no way that you’re the only one with sealant in this port. i am 100% convinced i’ve got a similar situation with this engine.
is there any chance you can find out what specific area or port of the engine that was plugged up with sealant? like a name or description or or even an image to reference??-
a month after surgery mine is making noises again, that are not just at startup but absolutely sound timing related - & i am pretty sure it’s gonna get cracked open again & i don’t wanna rinse repeat.... especially not 5 more times before they actually get to the root.
just like you, i’m digging my heels in. I am not gonna dump this thing as i’ve got a 10yr/150k extended. I am also gonna make Ford see this through, if not for me, for the others here, so it may perhaps help some poor owner to avoid the rabbit hole of endless phaser surgeries & endless hours of crappy tiny loaner vehicles & wasted time & energy etc etc. i’ve got other vehicles to drive so it’s a matter of principal at this point TBH.
there is no way that you’re the only one with sealant in this port. i am 100% convinced i’ve got a similar situation with this engine.
Wow......are these vehicles being taken to Ford dealer for maintenance and repairs? I would be going for lemon law or getting an attorney involved asap. Zero point in keeping such a bad apple. Too bad there are not many new vehicles to buy right now.
Deadman
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I'll ask them next week. Remember this is the HO from the Lincoln tho, so its quite different than the Expedition 3.5L.
Deadman
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I bought it with 15,000 miles so it wasn't new. $40K off new looked great at the time, but not now. lol
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