Barry Smith
Member
That's the second button I hit right after the starter button.
Auto stop benefit
- Thread starter Nytimes770
- Start date
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Rezolution
Active Member
Yes, it's another feature that auto-defaults to 'on' each time you start the car and there is no setting to permanently disable it. I'm sure that traction control helps them avoid "rollover" or "flip-over" lawsuits. They really don't want you to turn it off and leave it off.
aggiegrad05
Full Access Members
You're right, traction control (and other systems like it) were not designed to keep drivers safer. It was just to avoid lawsuits.
And I am sure it is a complete coincidence that that in 1979 (the year Cadillac rolled out traction control) there were 51,091 motor vehicle deaths on 2,144 billion miles traveled for a rate of 3.34 deaths for every 100mm miles traveled and in 2019 there were 36,560 deaths even though the miles traveled went up to 3,223 billion miles for a rate of only 1.13 deaths per 100mm traveled (a 67% reduction in the number of deaths per mile traveled). Yep, complete coincidence.
You are best to eliminate auto start stop if you plan to keep the truck long term. Cranking the engine when oil pressure is low wears bearings and cams faster, and the starter being built stronger is pretty laughable. Take a look at them, the starters are still pretty wimpy. There isn’t much extra beef to an AS/S starter. It was a government mandate that barely saves a few hundred dollars in fuel over the starters lifespan. The savings are negated when it needs to be replaced.
sjwhiteley
Full Access Members
An oldie (for young millennials) but a goodie: Jason (Engineering Explained) does a good job of explaining a few things.
I don't know why people seem astonished - and cannot believe - that technology has advanced where we can get electric motors, and their electromechanical components to last magnitudes longer, as well as being more effective and efficient, than components designed and built even a few decades ago.
I don't know why people seem astonished - and cannot believe - that technology has advanced where we can get electric motors, and their electromechanical components to last magnitudes longer, as well as being more effective and efficient, than components designed and built even a few decades ago.
aggiegrad05
Full Access Members
OMG...how dare you insert actual DATA into the argument?!?!?!
The moneyshot in that video is that you increase efficiency by between 4% and 8% using ASS. Assuming 12.000 miles driven, an avg mpg of 19, and an average fuel cost of $2.54 per gallon...you end up with a fuel savings of $64-$139 per 12,000 miles driven. Agreed, not much.
But. If you go on a gallon basis not a dollar basis, and you scale it across all the expis sold, the numbers are impressive...
4%-8% increased efficiency results in each expy driving 12,000 miles per year saving between 25 and 55 gallons of fuel a year. Ford sold 86,422 expis last year. Which means in the aggregate, equipping those vehicles with ASS saves between 2,183,293 and 4,748,661 gallons of gas per year. Given there are about 20 gallons of automotive fuel produced from each 42-gallon barrel of oil, ASS reduces consumption by between 109,164 and 237,433 bbls of oil. Per year. Just Ford expeditions. If you scale it even further, you begin to see that these systems have real world positive impacts.
And before you accuse me of being a greenie, I live in Texas and work for an oil company.
I don't care what you do with your ASS (hehe!) but the implementation of the system by all automakers across their fleets does have a significant impact.
Jason explains fuel savings and a bit about starters, I and others are explaining that cranking an engine over with little to no oil pressure does more harm/wear to the engines internals than the guy idling at the light next car over with an oil pump chugging away while it idles. I think we are talking about two separate issues, one being wear on hard internal parts and one being fuel savings. I guess it depends which you weight as more important, for me it’s reliability and maybe for some it’s fuel savings. There have been no significant internal changes to the main bearings, rods, camshafts, and oil passages in pre start/stop 5.0 and EcoBoost engines to current engines that use the technology. It’s extra wear accumulated over time, and as the evidence suggests a rushed government mandate to maintain compliance. Not synonymous with well thought out and reliable.
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aggiegrad05
Full Access Members
I will say, while my engine is off my oil pressure gauge stays where it was when the engine was running. But, last month I had a 2019 F150 as a loaner while mine was getting an oil change and some other maintenance done. In the F150, about 5 seconds after the ASS shut the motor off, the oil pressure gauge dropped to 0. And I agree that was concerning.
And I am not ignoring your point on reliability, I am just making the related point that the benefits of this system, fleet-wide, outweigh any reliability issues that may arise. IF they arise.
And in the Engineering Explained video, Jason makes the point that engineers are smart and have designed the engines to deal with the increased stress of repeated starts. But I understand folks don't believe that to be true, or don't believe any changes that have been made to be sufficient.
mrmachinist
Member
That is a scary thought if you have had as much experience with mechanical design engineers as I have.
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Wangle
Full Access Members
My 2018 Expy replaced Ol’Red 2003 Expy with 218,000 miles. I plan on trading again in 2035. I LOVE that AS/S is on my 2018. I turn it off immediately at every start with one button push. I get a more robust starter, which should last me until 2035 and 200,000+ miles due to my reduced use. I also get a much better AGM battery! I have been in one situation since owning the vehicle that the system was beneficial. I was in creeping traffic for two hours on I 80, stopped for two or three minutes, creep forward three or four car lengths with an outside temperature of about 60°. I actually turned it back on! I must admit it worked well in that situation. I thought it was silly to spend nearly $100 to be sure it was turned off when I can just push a button, but I am now shopping for that solution. So, in summary, it is there if/when I need/want it, I get a couple of upgrades, and I may spend an extra few dollars a year on fuel by turning it off, not risking my engine due to frequent starts with no oil. I would much rather idle a warm engine for a minute or two than shut it off and restart it. No, I don’t have scientific evidence, but I do have ears that tell me the first couple of seconds after starting may be detrimental.
