Ford back with big blocks and pushrods!

[Trainmaster]

He's Making America Great Again!

 

[1955moose]

Who is? Trump or Toby? Toby, we have a 5.0 V8 in the F150, the Coyote motor. Maybe 2020 will offer it or better back in the Expedition. It's the same vehicle, don't see the problem why they don't? Can't be emissions, safety? Why not offer it, and see if it sells. The suits at GM fought big motors in mid sized cars, till John Delorean snuck it under their noses in the Tempest in 64, we all know what happened in 65, the GTO.

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[TobyU]

Who is? Trump or Toby? Toby, we have a 5.0 V8 in the F150, the Coyote motor. Maybe 2020 will offer it or better back in the Expedition. It's the same vehicle, don't see the problem why they don't? Can't be emissions, safety? Why not offer it, and see if it sells. The suits at GM fought big motors in mid sized cars, till John Delorean snuck it under their noses in the Tempest in 64, we all know what happened in 65, the GTO.

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I don't buy new so I didn't know.
I thought that if the 17 and above Exp only had 3.5 then the F-150s did too.

Supports my theory...A lot of truck owners EXPECT and demand a V8.
What in the world were they thinking not having or at least offering the F150 engine in an Exp and Navi.
They are same vehicle!!

I was happy when they announced the 5.0 because the 4.6 was too small when it came out.
With the "new" technology they should have been able to keep same cubes or more and get same mpg and it was anemic compared to the 302(5.0) it replaced although much smoother.

I don't know why (never researched it)they didn't put more 5.4s in mustangs. They only had the special high end ones with superchargers and those probably had all aluminum blocks and tons of upgrades etc.
I would think a 5.4 with some better heads/cams/intake would scoot a mustang better than a 4.6 did in lets say the 97-05 or so.

 

[cmiles97]

Well the 2020 Explorer is giving options, 4 cylinder ecoboost, new 3.0 6 cylinder ecoboost and a N.A. 3.3L and electric motor in a hybrid. Plus they've gone back to RWD setup.

Ford's staying with turbos and expanding into hybrid. I'm glad they are staying with v-8s too. It's good to have choices.

 

[JExpedition07]

I wish someone (Ford) would make a dual overhead cam V8 with direct injection of bigger displacement like the 5.0L.

 

[1955moose]

A 5.8 would be a nice revival, just like the old days of 302/351. The 302 makes 390 horsepower, just the added cubes should bump that number to around 415. More in the high performance mustangs and whatever hot rod pick-up.

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[JExpedition07]

The 6.2L is a good engine. They could make a performance version With DOHC and direct injection. It makes 411 hp/ 434 torque in the Raptor variant. If they gave it the 4V heads it would be a monster. My phone math says at 5.0L power per liter the 6.2 would put down roughly 490 horsepower and 496 lb ft. Fun!

Then again the 5.4L Triton is a great truck engine. Low and mid range torque. One of the only undersquare V8s made, ideal for towing and truck duty. They could modernize an undersquare V8 with Coyote items too.

 

[Gregg Eshelman]

An F-150 without a V8 option is like the 2 door Explorer Sport. It didn't sell well so Ford stopped making it. The F-150 still sells because it's a pickup and can be used for pickup truck things - but it would *sell better* with a V8 option. I suspect the no V8 thing is to push people towards the more expensive F-250 or F-350.

Same crap they did with the first generation Sport Trac. It sold well enough without a V8 but would have sold a lot more with a V8.

Ford does have a history of purposefully NOT giving customers something they want. They wanted rear disc brakes on the Thunderbird with 302 V8, but for said "Nope! You want those you can only have them with the turbo 4 in the SC model." For 70 years they begged Ford to build a truck *the same size* as the Suburban. Ford steadfastly kept NOT doing so. GM was more than happy to introduce shortened versions of the Suburban to match Ford's offerings. Ford finally caved in to demand, but thought they knew better and introduced the *bigger than Suburban* Excursion - to poor sales. Those things are huge, you need a ladder to climb in, and they have little more interior space than a Suburban or Expedition EL.

Someone at Ford finally decided that We Out Here Who Buy Fords knew what we were wanting and produced the Expedition EL and Navigator L in 2007, almost precisely the same size as a Suburban. Sales are good, yeah? Just think how many more trucks Ford could have sold had they made that decision several decades sooner.

Perhaps Ford still feels the pain from the 1971-1973 Mustang when they tried making it too much like a Camaro? Or they figure that throwing away their dominating lead of the Thunderbird over the Corvette from 1955 to 1957 in 1958 in the name of Even Larger Sales Numbers while pi$$ing off loyal customers was one of Ford's best ideas ever?

 

[1955moose]

Greg, they still offer the 5.0 Coyote motor for the 2019 F150. Just not the same platform expedition. I can't see the reason, because it should have all the wiring and computer mounts and changes needed as the F150. To me, it makes no sense not to offer it. True it's down a little on horsepower and torque vs the twin turbo six, but very little. The 5.0 puts out 390 horses, only the Platinum six, puts out 10 more .I guess Ford had their reasons, just can't see how difficult it is to offer the same option as their pickup. The biggest difference is the twin turbo six Trump's the v8's torque by 80 pounds. Still consumers should have the choice. Not everybody needs to tow a 8,000 pound trailer. If their like me, they rairly have even a second passenger. Hauling around 6 porky friends only adds 2400 pounds, 300 each if your doing the math , plenty of torque in the 302 to get their fat ***** to the bar and back. Even if the bar is over a grade like here in my Pacifica.

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[JExpedition07]

Moose the 5.0 puts out 395 horsepower in the F-150, it’s up from last year. It is 20 hp more than the 3.5.

Also should add the same 5.0 in the Mustang with the more aggressive cams puts out 460 horsepower and 420 LB FT stock.....

 

[JasonH]

Greg, they still offer the 5.0 Coyote motor for the 2019 F150. Just not the same platform expedition. I can't see the reason, because it should have all the wiring and computer mounts and changes needed as the F150. To me, it makes no sense not to offer it. True it's down a little on horsepower and torque vs the twin turbo six, but very little. The 5.0 puts out 390 horses, only the Platinum six, puts out 10 more .I guess Ford had their reasons, just can't see how difficult it is to offer the same option as their pickup. The biggest difference is the twin turbo six Trump's the v8's torque by 80 pounds. Still consumers should have the choice. Not everybody needs to tow a 8,000 pound trailer. If their like me, they rairly have even a second passenger. Hauling around 6 porky friends only adds 2400 pounds, 300 each if your doing the math , plenty of torque in the 302 to get their fat ***** to the bar and back. Even if the bar is over a grade like here in my Pacifica.

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Fuel economy and performance. The 3.5 is better engine for both towing and fuel economy at any altitude. Because the Expedition is primarily a consumer vehicle and not for dual work/personal use like the F150, it makes sense to limit the powertrain options to the one that will meet the needs of most consumers. There's a cost associated with adding vehicle options, including powertain options, so it's likely the bean counters did the math and figured Ford wouldn't lose many sales by not offering the Coyote engine. Especially since the Ecoboost is a better all around performer. Also, a lot of vehicles in this price class are leased, and are way out of warranty before anything breaks, so durability wasn't a concern. Most vehicles in this class don't offer powertrain options, with the exception of the GM vehicles offering the 6.2 as a premium trim upgrade.

 

[JExpedition07]

Eh I wouldn’t say the ecoboost is better all around than the Coyote. The newer 5.0 excels in top end power where the ecoboost runs out of breath. The 5.0 also gets better fuel economy than the ecoboost in every towing test I’ve seen.

I do agree with your points though, the 5.0 is a revver for sure. The logic of engine placement in the expy is good also. Same reason ford only put the 5.4 Triton in the Expedition. Easier to supply one that did it all, rather than add the smaller 4.6.

Still could add options in the future, and it would be nice. Never rule it out. I’d by a 5.0 expy. The 5.0 toes nicely with 3.73s and is great empty.

 

[JExpedition07]

Well my dad decided he’s going to order a 2020 F-250 Lariat with the 7.3L V8.....should be interesting.

 

[Geargambler]

It has always been a popular swap to take a truck engine and drop it in a car (thinking the old 351 windsors into mustangs). I've even seen a few 3.5L twin turbo mustang swaps. That 7.3 looks huge. I wonder...

 

[cmiles97]

It has always been a popular swap to take a truck engine and drop it in a car (thinking the old 351 windsors into mustangs). I've even seen a few 3.5L twin turbo mustang swaps. That 7.3 looks huge. I wonder...

The sheer weight difference I assume is significant. Would the 7.3 HP/TQ overcome it?

There is something to be said for high power lighter motors. I think it was consumer reports or motortrend that showed an unloaded F-150 with a 2.7L Turbo was faster 0-60 than the 3.5L turbo. Plus got better gas mileage. They recommended it for that and it's reduced MSRP unless you had to tow above its weight rating.

Found it.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/04/2015-ford-f-150-ecoboost-engine-shootout/index.htm

From the article:
The performance differences aren’t huge, and both trucks are very capable—significantly more so than the last-generation F-150. In the 0-to-60 mph sprint, the new 2.7 V6 clocked in at 7 seconds flat, while the 3.5-liter took 7.2 seconds. In contrast, our last-generation F-150, which weighed 700 pounds more with a beefy 5.0-liter V8, took 7.8 seconds to hit 60 mph.

In our fuel-economy tests the turbo-2.7 averaged 17 mpg overall, versus 16 mpg for the turbo-3.5. The one notable plus for the larger engine is in its rated towing capacity, 10,700 pounds, versus the smaller turbo’s 7,600 pounds. But that’s still plenty of oomph to tow a 25-foot Chris Craft power boat, for instance.

The little-turbo-that-can also knocks off the competitions' bigger engines in our acceleration tests. The 2.7 is quicker than both the Chevrolet Silverado V8 (7.5 seconds) and Ram V8 (7.1 seconds). Only the V8-powered Toyota Tundra was quicker, at 6.7 seconds to 60 mph, the last time we tested one. And aside from the Ram 1500 diesel, which averaged 20 mpg, the 2.7-liter F-150 is the only full-sized pickup that managed 17 mpg in our tests, same as the smaller Toyota Tacoma. The Silverado 1500, meanwhile, got 16 mpg

 

[Geargambler]

Weight matters. Ask anyone that drag races. They try to shed pounds however they can!

 

[cmiles97]

Weight matters. Ask anyone that drag races. They try to shed pounds however they can!

You are correct plus gearing. I read a little further in the article:

How did Ford’s smaller engine manage this trick? At least part of the explanation lies in its shorter standard rear-axle ratio, 3.55 versus 3.31 in the turbo 3.5. As that number gets higher it brings better acceleration and towing but worse fuel economy. So in return for endowing the smaller engine with more grunt at the rear wheels, Ford scraped off some but not all of its potential fuel savings.

 

[JExpedition07]

I’d rather have extra weight and beefier chassis than lighter for a truck. I’m not trying to be fastest or most agile.

Those 2.7L F-150s are for commuters. The 2.7 comes with the thinner frame, smaller axle, etc. As soon as you option the 5.0 you get the bigger 9.75” axle and optional thicker gauge frame. Neither of which are available on the 2.7, which is why on paper the 2.7 outspeeds the 5.0 and 3.5 Eco.....the reality is the 5.0 and 3.5 are much more capable engines.

 

[Mubarakma]

V8 on new Expedition is it true?

 

[1955moose]

I think John Force is the only drag racer that pushes his race suit to the max. But at 69 years old, I guess he earned those extra 15 or so pounds. With his car putting out 10,000 horsepower, I don't 15 pounds is going to slow him down much. Ford makes a 3.7 non turbo, wonder when their going to use the bigger motor for their twin turbo. Nissan did that with their non turbo 350Z, it morphed into the faster 370Z.

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