Ford back with big blocks and pushrods!

[carymccarr]

I don't care!

I guess I’m just not a fan of the swamp.


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[TobyU]

I guess I’m just not a fan of the swamp.


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Swamp Thing was a good movie. Well maybe not good but at least it had Heather Locklear in it.

 

[Machete]

There’s plenty of oil. Dinosaur’s were everywhere

 

[JExpedition07]

 

[JExpedition07]

 

[JExpedition07]

@Boostedbus

 

[Boostedbus]

@Boostedbus

View attachment 36811

Dammit! I just put a new Stainless flowmaster dual exhaust system on the old Windsor powered F150. I’d probably go with a Clevor Build if I was gonna build it because of budget anyway. It’s a Windsor block with Cleveland heads. Kind of the best of both worlds as far as those two Mills are concerned. But we can still dream about it how cool it would be to rock a Godzilla under the bonnet!

 

[JExpedition07]

The union has confirmed Ford is making another new V8 engine likely based off the Godzilla architecture and calls it the 6.X engine. Insiders say the 6.X is going to be a destroked 7.3 and made of aluminum for lighter vehicles. Ford is likely moving their V8 engine program to this single architecture to condense to 2 engines. You may see the two OHC offerings retire when the 6.X comes out. I say this because the 6.X is slated for the F-150 and Mustang where the 5.0 resides. I wouldn’t be surprised if the new 6.0 Liter is offered in the Expedition either. It will boast higher compression, direct injection, and a light weight block.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motor1.com/news/451808/ford-new-engine-mustang/amp/

 

[JExpedition07]

Ignore the 6.8 figure, the union has only officially called it a 6.X, it is likely to be on the lower side of 6 liters...I’d guess 6-6.2 liters. We can look at the Camaro for starters. It’s 6.2L puts down 455 horsepower, so I’d expect the new 6.X to be around 455 horsepower in pony car form. I think it will be over 460 horsepower though, since that’s what the current 5.0 offering is at. In the trucks and possibly Expedition I’d expect a slight de-tune, expect around 420 horsepower in an F-Series half ton truck. I’d also get ready to expect cylinder deactivation, this engine will have it since it’s for passenger vehicles. From what I’m hearing this engine has a good chance of landing in our trucks as an optional power plant and that it checks off the boxes the 5.0 didn’t to be considered. With the HO 3.5 slowly being phased out (happening now), the 6.X V8 would likely sit in between the EcoBoost and all mighty PowerBoost in the lineup next gen.

 

[Alex Taylor]

So when can we see this in an Expedition? Has somebody done a swap yet it should easily fit.

 

[JExpedition07]

 

[JExpedition07]

 

[JasonH]

So when can we see this in an Expedition? Has somebody done a swap yet it should easily fit.

The 6.8 hasn't been released yet. I doubt it will make it to the Expedition. I don't see any advantage for it over a 3.5 with Powerboost. The F150 moves way more units as compared to an Expedition, so this can replace the 5.0 and 6.2. Some fleets and customers that run heavy loads frequently might move to this for serviceability. For everyone else, it's going to deliver power numbers similar to the 3.5 at worse mpg, so what's the point?

I would be interested in see mpg for a large displacement OHV engine w/ Powerboost tacked on. I've seen numbers like 10 - 15 for the 7.3 in F250 w 4.30 gears, and average around 15 - 18 mixed in my EL with the 3.5, so getting closer to 20 would be a substantial improvement.

 

[JExpedition07]

The 6.8 hasn't been released yet. I doubt it will make it to the Expedition. I don't see any advantage for it over a 3.5 with Powerboost. The F150 moves way more units as compared to an Expedition, so this can replace the 5.0 and 6.2. Some fleets and customers that run heavy loads frequently might move to this for serviceability. For everyone else, it's going to deliver power numbers similar to the 3.5 at worse mpg, so what's the point?

I would be interested in see mpg for a large displacement OHV engine w/ Powerboost tacked on. I've seen numbers like 10 - 15 for the 7.3 in F250 w 4.30 gears, and average around 15 - 18 mixed in my EL with the 3.5, so getting closer to 20 would be a substantial improvement.

The 6.8 is likely to be aluminum and have displacement on demand so I have a feeling MPG numbers won’t be as low as expected. GM returned 23 MPG out of the 6.2 in the 2020 Yukon. The hybrid on these trucks appears to improve city mpg mostly, no doubt beneficial.

 

[Alex Taylor]

Fair point thanks.

 

[JasonH]

The 6.8 is likely to be aluminum and have displacement on demand so I have a feeling MPG numbers won’t be as low as expected. GM returned 23 MPG out of the 6.2 in the 2020 Yukon. The hybrid on these trucks appears to improve city mpg mostly, no doubt beneficial.

From what I've read, you're right on the aluminum block and DoD. Part of the mpg in the F250 is a reflection of that vehicle's size and weight. I think we'll see better numbers in the F150 since it is lighter and has a smaller aero profile. Hybridization does improve more mpg in the city as compared to highway, but it can help on the highway as well by enabling the engine to run on fewer cylinders more often. It's interesting that Ford is bringing these large displacement, OHV engines back during a period of low fuel prices but that probably coincidental since Covid wasn't on anyone's radar when they being designing them. I think it's directed at improving operating range and improving serviceability. Supposedly the 7.3 displacement was chosen because it provided the best low RPM power and decent mpg for engines that operate frequently at high loads.

 

[Machete]

My next truck will have to be either the 6.2 or 7.3. Don’t want to risk VCT issues and expense.

I need to be running on the highway constantly w good reliability in higher mileage ranges 100k-200k+.

I’ll retire this 2v 5.4 at 250k (212,*** now) so thinking on best used V8 truck to replace.

Would like to stay Ford but open to other platforms.

 

[JExpedition07]

From what I've read, you're right on the aluminum block and DoD. Part of the mpg in the F250 is a reflection of that vehicle's size and weight. I think we'll see better numbers in the F150 since it is lighter and has a smaller aero profile. Hybridization does improve more mpg in the city as compared to highway, but it can help on the highway as well by enabling the engine to run on fewer cylinders more often. It's interesting that Ford is bringing these large displacement, OHV engines back during a period of low fuel prices but that probably coincidental since Covid wasn't on anyone's radar when they being designing them. I think it's directed at improving operating range and improving serviceability. Supposedly the 7.3 displacement was chosen because it provided the best low RPM power and decent mpg for engines that operate frequently at high loads.

Agreed, that and I think the move is for more economic manufacturing. Sharing the architecture and parts for the V8 program can condense to 2 motors and save $$. GM’s total cost per unit to manufacture their small block packages is a lot less than Fords from what I’ve read. Ford has done more designing new engines for short runs. All that development $$ and tooling changes isn’t the most effective for minimizing long term costs. OHV might make a come pack before electrification, you could get diesel level torque and good efficiency out of a simple pushrod engine with a hybrid setup.

I’m a Ford guy, but the pendulum has swung back a little on the OHC program. Yes the DOHC feeds more CFM through the heads and can phase intake and exhaust separately...but they are heavy and large. If you compare the 5.0 to GM’s 6.2 it’s a loser. The 6.2 is smaller, more powerful, and bests it on highway MPG. There’s something to be said for the modern OHV.

 

[TobyU]

The 6.8 hasn't been released yet. I doubt it will make it to the Expedition. I don't see any advantage for it over a 3.5 with Powerboost. The F150 moves way more units as compared to an Expedition, so this can replace the 5.0 and 6.2. Some fleets and customers that run heavy loads frequently might move to this for serviceability. For everyone else, it's going to deliver power numbers similar to the 3.5 at worse mpg, so what's the point?

I would be interested in see mpg for a large displacement OHV engine w/ Powerboost tacked on. I've seen numbers like 10 - 15 for the 7.3 in F250 w 4.30 gears, and average around 15 - 18 mixed in my EL with the 3.5, so getting closer to 20 would be a substantial improvement.

I see a big advantage over the 3.5. No turbos and it's a V-8. This will sell in the truck Market. People are still pissed that they can't get a V8 in their F-150s! Most people don't want turbos on their truck unless it's a diesel. Turbos are for performance cars and for play toys not for daily drivers or things you want to go a quarter of a million miles without repairs.
The majority of people who drive trucks don't care near as much about mileage as they do about a nice set of wheels and tires or bigger wheels and tires.
Powerful V8 in trucks is a smart move for Ford.

 

[TobyU]

Agreed, that and I think the move is for more economic manufacturing. Sharing the architecture and parts for the V8 program can condense to 2 motors and save $$. GM’s total cost per unit to manufacture their small block packages is a lot less than Fords from what I’ve read. Ford has done more designing new engines for short runs. All that development $$ and tooling changes isn’t the most effective for minimizing long term costs. OHV might make a come pack before electrification, you could get diesel level torque and good efficiency out of a simple pushrod engine with a hybrid setup.

I’m a Ford guy, but the pendulum has swung back a little on the OHC program. Yes the DOHC feeds more CFM through the heads and can phase intake and exhaust separately...but they are heavy and large. If you compare the 5.0 to GM’s 6.2 it’s a loser. The 6.2 is smaller, more powerful, and bests it on highway MPG. There’s something to be said for the modern OHV.

I really am not a huge fan of overhead cam but they have proven to be very durable and Long live, until they start putting the cam phasers and crap on them.
I prefer pushrods but both designs have their pluses and minuses.